Chain on my 1980 Honda CM400

    • 6 posts
    July 7, 2010 4:50 PM PDT
    So, the problem I have is reasonably simple. I've asked my Dad what he thought, and now kinda want to know if anyone else ever tried what I'm considering...

    My chain is stretched. I have no idea if it's ever been replaced, 30 year old bike with about 20 grand on the odometer, who knows? The thing is that I've kept it tight, every time it gets a little loose I tightened it up, and now I'm out of real estate on the adjusters. The sprockets seem ok to me, but I just can't tighten the chain enough to quit slapping the swingarm. What I'm thinking about doing is popping a link or two off the chain and then putting the masterlink back, so that the chain's shorter and I can re-adjust again. I really haven't looked for a new chain because money's an issue at the moment, but if anyone can tell me why that's a terrible plan, I guess I'll start shopping. Not really sure what a chain goes for these days, Dad hasn't bought one in a LONG time, either, so any ideas on that would be appreciated, too! Thanks!
    • Moderator
    • 19043 posts
    July 7, 2010 10:49 PM PDT
    Hawk, NO NO NO, a stretched chain is also a worn chain. Sorry but replace it. Worst case is it breaks at say 50mph then wraps around the wheel locking it up. Can you imagine?
    • 413 posts
    July 8, 2010 2:44 AM PDT

    I agree with Rex there Hawk. When we were kids, we used to add or remove links from bicycle chains. A bicycl;e is one thing man; a motorcycle capable of reaching speeds of 100mph is something way different. Do what Rex says and buy a new chain. Send us a Part Number of the chain with yer bike info and maybe we all can do a check around search for ya to come up with the best deal we can find. PLEASE GET RID OF THE STRETCHED CHAIN BRO! More than just yer life depends on it...

    • 6 posts
    July 8, 2010 6:02 AM PDT
    lol, ok, I'll replace it. My Dad told me that was a "get it home" stunt that would work just for that... he also said that it would kill the sprockets and effect handling while accelerating. SO, I'll start looking around. Thing is, while this is my 3rd bike, it's the first one I've really worked on, and I don't always know what I'm looking for; It's also the first chain drive I've owned, my other bikes were shaft drive. I honestly couldn't really tell you where the line was between worn and fine when it comes to sprockets, what are the chances that they're bad, too???

    As far as part numbers and prices, I've never seen a part number on the chain I've got; I looked at oldbikebarn.com and they list three different chains for the model, standard for about $30, "O ring" and "X ring" types for about $100; really hoping mine's standard, but again, I couldn't tell you the difference there. Front sprockets run about $16-$20 coming in 15 or 17 tooth, and rears are around $30-$50, coming in 34 ad 37 tooth. (Haven't counted, but I've been wanting to drop a tooth-size in the rear anyhow). Plus shipping on that stuff, of course, since it's online. You think I'd do better at a cycle shop???
    • Moderator
    • 19043 posts
    July 8, 2010 6:18 AM PDT
    Hawk, I don't expect you will find a number on the chain. For the reasoning between standard, o-ring and x-ring here is some info you will find worthwhile.

    http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm />
    My personal experience is with O-ring types because I was never very good at lubing it regularly.
    As for sprockets, the best way to judge for someone not real familiar with them is to compare side by side with a new one.
    I know there are other CFr's here who can better advise you. Bullmoose is one I can think of off the top so send him a PM if he doesn't comment.
  • July 8, 2010 9:44 AM PDT
    Hawk if the teeth look like shark fins then the sprockets are stuffed. Normal operation is if the chain is to stretched and needs replacing then the sprockets are too. Both the wheel and drive sprockets mate.But as I said a good guide is the shape of the teeth.
    • 6 posts
    July 8, 2010 2:58 PM PDT
    Hoss1584 wrote...
    Hawk if the teeth look like shark fins then the sprockets are stuffed. Normal operation is if the chain is to stretched and needs replacing then the sprockets are too. Both the wheel and drive sprockets mate.But as I said a good guide is the shape of the teeth.

    Hey bro, thanks for the clarification, that's sort of what I thought. The teeth are in pretty good shape, nice sharp angles everywhere, flat tops rather than points, and everything seems straight. At least the rear, I've honestly never had the side off the motor to see what condition the drive sprocket's in, but I'd assume (yeah, yeah I know what happens when you assume stuff lol) that the drive is the same age and would have the same wear as the wheel sprocket. Thanks again, you really helped!
    • 413 posts
  • July 8, 2010 3:17 PM PDT
    my only question is how tight you pulling the chain?
  • July 8, 2010 3:45 PM PDT
    DUDE!!!!! These guys aren't pulling yer Chain (all puns intended) about NOT removing links and trying to recycle a worn out Chain... When they stretch that much, you're facing metal fatigue on the links... Like Rex said, sliding down the road at 50-60 mph with a LOCKED rear wheel will cause yer butt to PUCKER! An for heavens sake, when ya put the new chain on.... Don't Over-tighten it....
    • 352 posts
    July 8, 2010 4:10 PM PDT
    Gotta agree with Rex on this - personally, when I changed up the chain on my old bikes I changed the sprockets at the same time as a full set. better wear and less to worry about - do it right the first time
    • 6 posts
    July 9, 2010 5:15 AM PDT
    Badinfluence, far as I know, not too tight, just so that it doesn't contact the swingarm all the time;

    Bikersarge, trust me, more than my butt would be puckered! That's in the territory of your stuff jumpin up and shaking hands with your tonsils.

    BullDog, I'd really like to; I'm going to order a chain for now, because it's what I can afford. If I find a decent deal on sprockets later on, or find used ones that are in better shape, I'll pounce on them, thing is, that my sprocket set is on the list of mods that I want to do, so if I can make due with what I have for now, I'll do it, rather than spend money on something other than what I want, which is a smaller rear sprocket and a slightly larger drive sprocket. If I can find the right kit, I'd even get a "better" chain when I do the swap, but for now, I got a trip to be saving up for lol!
    • 413 posts
    July 9, 2010 5:28 AM PDT
    Hey "Grashopper", do ya know how many teeth ya got on yer rear and front sprockets? Some I found on the rear have 34/35/36/37.

    Not sure about the front sprockets if they are standard in teeth or have different sizes which I suspect they have different size for the front?
    • 6 posts
    July 9, 2010 5:59 AM PDT
    Hey bro, not sure till I get the chain and have the wheel off anyhow, I'm probably going to order the one you found, it's a little less on shipping than what I found. The sprockets I found were 35-37 tooth for the rear, and 15-17 for the front. I'm hoping that I have the 37 rear and 15 front, that'll be easy to play with. I don't know if you remember, but I've wanted to do that mod for a while. I'll increase my top-end, yeah, but what I want to do is lower my RPM = increase my milage at 60 or so mph. I'll sacrifice a little acceleration for better cruising gear. Thanks!
    • 413 posts
    July 9, 2010 6:13 AM PDT
    Hawk6351 wrote...
    Hey bro, not sure till I get the chain and have the wheel off anyhow, I'm probably going to order the one you found, it's a little less on shipping than what I found. The sprockets I found were 35-37 tooth for the rear, and 15-17 for the front. I'm hoping that I have the 37 rear and 15 front, that'll be easy to play with. I don't know if you remember, but I've wanted to do that mod for a while. I'll increase my top-end, yeah, but what I want to do is lower my RPM = increase my milage at 60 or so mph. I'll sacrifice a little acceleration for better cruising gear. Thanks!

    Good enough and here's some front and rear sprockets as well:

    http://motors.shop.ebay.com/__?_from=R40&_trksid=m39&_nkw=1980+Honda+CM400+Sprockets />
    Welll, if ya do have a 37 on now and ya know yer not happy with yer rpm/mpg ratio then like ya said; you could always go lower to do what yer wanting to do and have a bit of room to go back if ya don't like it but it sounds like you know what yer wanting to do. Based on the teeth availability of the front I'd say ya prolly want to go with another 15 tooth front and maybe35 /36 rear. Keep us posted; I'm interested in seeing how this turns out

    • 6 posts
    July 9, 2010 6:18 AM PDT
    Will do, and thanks again. (Generally, if you drop a size in the back, you wanna go up a little in the front. I just found that out yesterday lol. My dad did something similar to his FLH, turning it into and FLP with the CHP final drive package. Got the idea off of him lol) That is the great thing about this mod, it's cheap, effective, and completely reversible!
    • 413 posts
    July 9, 2010 6:43 AM PDT
    Hawk6351 wrote...
    Will do, and thanks again. (Generally, if you drop a size in the back, you wanna go up a little in the front. I just found that out yesterday lol. My dad did something similar to his FLH, turning it into and FLP with the CHP final drive package. Got the idea off of him lol) That is the great thing about this mod, it's cheap, effective, and completely reversible!

    Good deal man, just keep us posted cause this is a learning experiance for me too

  • July 9, 2010 12:42 PM PDT
    I have a point to concider on sprocket changes. In 1966, I had a Suzuki T10 250 cci 24 hp smoker (New). With a windshield and weighing 230 lbs. I was running 4 lanes at 70 mph and using full throttle. After a talk with the wrench in the shop, he told me to drop 1 tooth on the drive sprocket to improve milage and performance. By droping 1 tooth on the drive sprocket the rpms increased but I could back off the throttle and get better milage and top end. Dropping a tooth on the driven sprocket with put a higher drive load on the engine and could cause just the opposit desired result by making the engine to work harder and use more fuel. New cars down shift to a lower gear on hills and when loaded heavy to run faster and requires less fuel. Check with a mechanic in a Honda dealer for guide lines on operation of your bike. they usually have some suggestions that may save some wrong investments that could waste cash. Give this a thought for a smaller displacement engine compared to the big bores and high hp power machines. Sprocket ratios can make BIG changes with just one tooth change....Howard
    • 6 posts
    July 9, 2010 1:31 PM PDT
    Unfortunately, most of the cycle shops around here are a little clueless, if you're there to buy something, fine, but most don't know how to modify things or think outside their manuals and outside the box. That's the independant shops. The Honda dealership will talk to you about mods on new bikes, but anything more than ten years old, they give you a dumb look and say they don't carry any parts for it. I know this because I couldn't even get them to look for a sissy bar/luggage rack for mine. I mean, they wouldn't even look in their parts book or online or nothing. I ended up digging up something my Dad had laying around since who knows when and he helped me make it work. SO, I'm not real confident they'd help. I've been toying with how to pull a few more horses out of her anyhow, but hopefully when I take a shot at it she'll be able to handle it. The extra 150 ccs might make a difference, too. Still, I'll definitely take your input. Right now, I'm not changing the sprockets, just the chain, so I'll have a little time to do some more research. Thanks!

    Hey, have you guys thought about hittin VA Beach in Sept????