Roadbike Magazine covered this type of discussion. The editorial editors point is, if you are a leader you lead as a group unit. If a detour happens, a person drops out to direct the group and rejoin with trailer. If you dont wish to ride with the group, make it known up front and assume the lone ridder situation. Come and go as you please but make no assumtions and inform all of your ride criteria. The lead and sweepers are accepting the responsability of the group safty and enjoyment as a group. If you want to run at 200 then cut into two groups as determinded by the group. Each accepts the responcability of their actions and decisions

On the other hand. If you signed up to be a part of a rolling-thunder group ride, you might want to try to keep up. Most of the guys I ride with push it, and I personally have no problem with that, but I know if I get left behind... their attitude if 'see ya! wouldn't wanna be ya!"

One aspect that hasn't come up yet is civil liability. I doubt that a guy in the leader position on a ride like this is criminally culpible, but keep in mind that the civil action is far easier to prove. If someone gathered a perponderance of evidence (more likely than not) that "but for" the leaders words or actions the accident wouldn't have happened... slam!

Well, this was a typical sunday ride no different than any other, regardless of who was leading or how fast they were going. I would still have waited for this stretch of road I know like the back of my hand, checked my mirror, got in the left lane and opened it up, the same bikes would have tucked in behind me and let them rip too. This kid and his dad would still have been at the near of the pack, we did this every sunday together. I only go fast with the people I know and trust.

It could have been any one of us leading that particular day that's not the issue. You can look at it this way, if I had not gone riding that day, they may have rode north or south instead and it never would have happenend. OR ... a helicopter could have crashed and killed all seven of them, then I could think if I had only rode that day we would have gone west and no one would have got hurt.............

Bottom line is shit happens one way or another, had he been racing me side by side and crashed nothing would change, I was miles ahead of him when it happened. We leave no one behind and would have gone back even if that jeep hadn't told us something had happened.

IMHO, you are going way to fast on public streets in the first place.

As far as responsibility, I have to agree with many of the people who posted; the rider should be responsible enough to know what his/her limits are and ride within them. However, as the ride leader you may want to take in consideration who is riding behind you. Young people like this guy tend to want to prove they can keep up, and are not going to be the one left behind to catch up. My suggestion would be if you have to ride like that make sure everyone in your group is capable of either riding at those speeds, or at least mature enough to make the decision not to.

Flatlander - I don't intend anything person about you. Not my point. Actually, like I said I think speed is awesome and go for it. Let the chips fall where they may.

Put it another way. You can ride as slow as you want to, with no lights or reflectors, and wear cammo so you blend in with the road and the scenery if that's your thing. Just don't whine when you get run over by a cage. Or stay home and die of a heart attack from eating 14 fried chickens a day, just don't cry about it

Bottom line, it was the young mans time to meet his maker; the throttle was in his hands. Shit happens; we take a chance everytime we get on these bikes.

True! Sad deal. I have boys, all grown, don't even want to imagine losing one. I am certain that who's to blame would cross your mind. Then you would come to a point that it doesn't matter who's to blame. It just sucks!

We ahev all had people tell us that bikes are dangerous. Yup... it's a choice.

I have seen folks on cruiser bikes get run over and killed as well going too slow south of me on I-95, that's why I always tell people to avoid rush hour traffic down here, if you ain't running 90 mph you are just in the way with cars and trucks splitting lanes rushing to and from work.

Between the V-Twin people running in "angry mobs" and the Crotch Rocket people "racing" one thing to keep in mind is that there are more of them than there are of us. I am referring to voters. Do you think for one minute that there is a helmet law because a majority of motorcycle riders think there should be one? The same goes for loud pipes, maximum possible speed of a bike, how tall the handle bars are, windshields, goggles, reflective vest, the list goes on.

Personally, I want to ride as fast or slow as I want, pipes as loud as I want, bars as tall as I want, and if the weather is warm enough no helmet, just a pair of jeans and boots, nothing reflective but my shiny bald head and my shades. I think most bike riders would say "hell ya, if that's your bag who cares!" But if I crack the throttle and rattle the windows of enough voters, there goes open pipes. If I look too gang-ish then there go the ape hangers, and my new "colors" are going to be hunter orange and reflective silver.

What I am getting at is the balance between wanting to do my own thing and making all of us look bad.
Again, I am not talking about YOU personally, it's just food for thought for all of us.

Holy Crap! I need to get drunk and forget about it. What an intense serious bastard I can be, huh?

Im new here but would like to comment on this.

We all make a choice on how far we twist but as the " leader " I do think there is a duty to ride to the ability of your groups weakest rider. We all know what its like to be pushed. Some people can take a look at the leader running away from them, others have the urge to push it so they dont " look bad " to the group.

But when it comes right down to it, it was his choice.

When we ride together as a group here the rule is "fastest bike is the slowest", but we will always pick a stretch of road where those who want can go apeshit, but everyone knows this, if some guy decides to go ape, and is not capable...well tough' he made his choice

In reference to this story don't forget no one did anything wrong, he got an unexplained "Tank Slapper", he was a good rider, cornered excellent, did some track days. We don't know what happened, blow out front tire, will never know, he DID know how to ride fast and handle his bike.

I don't buy green bananas. I might not live long enough to see them ripen up.

Amen.. When its gonna happen its gonna happen

I would like to add my 2 pennies if I may. I have read everyone post here on this subject "Leading Group Rides, responsible or Not?". Everyone here seems to have a great sense of riding ablity and common sense when it comes to riding. Flatlander, your topic is if you are a Ride leader are you responsible; this we should remember and understand that anytime you place yourself a leadership postion you are holding some level of responsibility. If you lead then everyone behind you will follow.........your lead. Also, no one is able to operate or control someone else bike. It seems that your ride was about going fast and your riding buddies have experience in speed and everyone knew it and was not unexpected. This was unfortuate accident and like you said it could have happened to anyone. Without sounding like a shrink, but I think and this is my opinion that you feel something, what you feel I don't know but whatever it is I believe that boy's father is holding it and you need to go ask for it. I hope this doesn't crap you out Flatlander, just trying to help.

I'm a cruiser type myself, I think going that fast is a bit irresponsible to begin with. That being said, I know that there's plenty of sport riders out there, and if the kid was running in a group that wanted to fly, he knew what he signed up for and he twisted the throttle, and he paid the price. Doesn't make it any less tragic, and human nature is to try to place blame or at least explanation... you may well feel some guilt deep down, or you wouldn't be thinking about it all the time. That's perfectly fine, and I'm glad that you're not cold and carefree that one of your brothers went down.

I also have to say that in a different group, if I was riding in a group and the leader(s) took off like that, I'd (1) watch them go, and (2) be REALLY pissed when I caught up to them, not as much for leaving me behind, but more for endangering their own lives. Skill level is only part of the game when you want to ride that fast. You have so many things that you couldn't possibly predict, from traffic to debris on the road, to possible mechanical failure. No matter how careful you are to check your bike and everyone else's, no matter how experienced you are at that style of riding, no matter how experienced the rest of your group is, you can never count on a car not popping out into your lane, crossing in front of you, or a little bit of loose gravel or heck, at those speeds, a nut or bolt dropped off a car on a curve. it wouldn't take anything to spill a bike at those speeds. As the leader of the pack, I might not place BLAME on you; as your friend, riding with you, I would be furious with you for being that careless about your own life. (Same would go for ANYONE who throttled up to keep up with you.) I know running fast is a rush, but I've been fortunate enough to learn from other people's mistakes and I've decided that my life is too valuable to endanger for a rush. IMHO.

ok flatlander you may hate me for this but all i see is a bunch of excuses in your responces. Unexplaned tank slap, we always do this speed on this streach of road, and the best one, dont forget no one did anything wrong. BULL SHIT do you think this would of happend if you were doing the speed limit. 185 and leading a group, I dont give a shit how good the other riders are thats just the most dumb ass irresponsible thing I have ever heard of

I don't "Hate" anyone and very much expected many to not understand what it's like to go fast and have fun with this type of bike.
 
If I was leading a group of cruiserbikes in the passing lane on 95 doing sixty mile an hour as many of them do obstructing traffic and had half dozen bikes in the rear get run over by an 18-wheeler I'd feel alot worse than I do now because I know better than to mess with traffic trying to get someplace. That's why we go out west and have fun where there's no traffic.

Any Harley rider with a set of balls know's what a Tank Slapper is and how difficult it is to deal with as all bikes with welded round steel chassis do. It often happens on decel and has been the cause of many wrecks and deaths. That's why sportbikes went to box tube aluminum chassis with strategically located weld joints to eliminate the front end harmonics with the motor that create it.

That's why this is a mystery he wasn't slowing down to cause it. Had we been going 70 or 80 the result could have been the same as he high sided and landed on the sharp metal guardrails and support structures behind it designed to keep cars and trucks out of the ditch. Had to be a front tire blow out.

For the benefit of the "Or-Not's"  that have a problem with comprehension this was NOT an Organized Group Ride to a pre-determined location, just a handful of friends riding to breakfast on a typical sunday morning.